Friday, August 12, 2011

Re: Limits to Growth

Some blog followers might be interested in a discussion-list post “Re: Limits to Growth” [Hake (2011)].

The abstract reads:

ABSTRACT: SClistserv’s Michael Beverley (2011) in his post “Limits to Growth” wrote (paraphrasing) “Does anyone recall a discussion concerning the book ‘Limits to Growth’ on the listserve?”

Rick Kubina responded by giving references to Meadows et al. (1972, 2004) and to the UTube video of Albert Bartlett's popular discussion of “Arithmetic, Population, and Energy” at - as of 12 August 2011 10:24-0700 the video had been observed 2,894,868 times!

I give 8 references to the work of Donella and Dennis Meadows [including Meadows et al. (1972, 2004)] that were derived from:

(a) “Over Two-Hundred Annotated References on Systems Thinking” [Hake (2009a) at ];

(b) “Misconceptions in the Population/Energy Debate #2” [Hake (2009b) at]; and

(c) 10 posts of mine containing the word “Meadows” on the OPEN! AERA-L archives at .

I then contrast the rosy outlook on the future of SClistserv’s Michael Lamport Commons (2011) of the Harvard Medical School with the less sanguine predictions of Dennis Meadows – see the signature quote.

To access the complete 17 kB post please click on .

Richard Hake, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Indiana University
Honorary Member, Curmudgeon Lodge of Deventer, The Netherlands
President, PEdants for Definitive Academic References
which Recognize the Invention of the Internet (PEDARRII)

“The global society, and particularly the US, is like a small boatload of people about to enter a long stretch of white water and rapids. For the foreseeable future we will be totally preoccupied with immediate problems and far too distracted to develop and implement a rational long term plan. Eventually, after climate change, fossil fuel depletion, and several other manifestations of the growth limits have produced some new sort of semi stable state, with a MUCH lower population and material standard of living, our species will hopefully be able to start identifying, choosing, and pursuing its longer term options. I do not expect to be alive when that time comes.”
Dennis Meadows, private communication of 17 November
2009 to R.R. Hake, quoted by permission.

REFERENCES [URL’s shortened by and accessed on 12 August 2011.]
Hake, R.R. 2011. “Re: Limits to Growth,” online on the OPEN! AERA-L archives at . Post of 12 Aug 2011 11:43:23-0700 to AERA-L and Net-Gold. The abstract and link to the complete post are being transmitted to various discussion lists and are also on my blog "Hake'sEdStuff" at with a provision for comments.

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